How to Stop Nail Biting: After 20 Years, This Is How I Finally Broke My Biting Habit (2024)

Joanna Fleming:
Welcome everybody to Beauty ID the podcast. I'm your host, Joanna Fleming.

Hannah Furst:
And I am your co-host Hannah Furst.

Joanna Fleming:
After our origin story of the anus add-on episode, I got an inbox message from someone and she just said, "A word of advice. I was listening to your podcast yesterday about your at-home laser and the anus add-on, well years ago I was getting laser and I kept my G-string on as the beautician was just moving it where needed." That's a bit weird. "I then had the anus add-on, however the laser must have touched the G-string and caught on fire. No joke. I had a burnt..." You can figure that out. "Tread with caution."

Hannah Furst:
Oh my goodness, that is why you shouldn't be wearing a G-string during that treatment.

Joanna Fleming:
Yes.

Hannah Furst:
That therapist would have got in a bit of trouble for that.

Joanna Fleming:
And then I have another really funny thing that... Because I think people obviously love our anus add-on chats. I always get sent a lot of content when it comes to anus add-ons. Oh my God. Okay. Some girl tweeted, "I went to the bar in my scrubs last night and this dude paid for my tab because he thought I was a nurse during a pandemic. Sir, I laser booty holes for a living."

Hannah Furst:
I saw that. I love that though, she deserved the drink just as much.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, yeah. So... Yeah that's me, that's where we're at with the anus add-on. All right.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
What's on today's episode Hannah?

Hannah Furst:
So on today's episode we are talking about morning breath. I think that's really relevant to my mask wearing when I go and get my coffee in the morning without brushing my teeth. Then we're talking to Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan and we are talking to her about feet really. Toenails?

Joanna Fleming:
Nails.

Hannah Furst:
Sorry. We're talking to-

Joanna Fleming:
You were in the interview.

Hannah Furst:
And then the products that we didn't know we needed.

Joanna Fleming:
So Hannah I feel like this was cut out of the episode when we were talking about [inaudible 00:02:10], but you said to me in that recording, you were like, "Yeah, I don't brush my teeth." You said something about how bad your breath is in the morning when you have your mask, and I was like, "Brush your teeth." And you were like, "No I go down to the coffee shop and I wear my mask down there and I breathe in my own breath." That's disgusting.

Hannah Furst:
Okay, so there's one thing that every man listening who wants to date me, because there's heaps of you out there, there's one thing that you need to know about me. I cannot get up or start my morning or have sex or do anything in the morning, like literally anything, like speak without a coffee. What I've taken to in the mornings on like a Sunday, when I can't get out of bed, I Uber a coffee to my house.

Joanna Fleming:
You don't.

Hannah Furst:
That's how bad it's gotten.

Joanna Fleming:
Oh, that's such a waste of money. Do you pay like $5 delivery for that?

Hannah Furst:
I mean, usually I'll order a toasty as well, but-

Joanna Fleming:
Okay yeah, semi worth it then. But anyway, morning breath, which I know Hannah, you will be familiar with dealing with. But this is another one that would just kept coming up in cringy convos that people wanted us to talk about. So we thought we would just discuss it because yeah, I feel like everyone has gone through this at some point in their life, where they've had an embarrassing moment with morning breath. Hannah?

Hannah Furst:
I don't understand people who have sex in the morning without brushing their teeth, I don't get that.

Joanna Fleming:
I think there should be maybe a mutual agreement between both parties, like we're going to get out of bed now and we're both going to go and brush our teeth.

Hannah Furst:
Who wants to have that... Like a fluffy tongue, like downing in their mouth?

Joanna Fleming:
Hannah.

Hannah Furst:
Seriously.

Joanna Fleming:
So I want to explain, because I looked up... I actually found an explanation of morning breath on Colgate. So I was like, "That's going to be legit."

Hannah Furst:
Are they going to slide into our DM's after this?

Joanna Fleming:
I hope so. So they explain that morning breath is a form of bad breath known medically as halitosis I think it's pronounced. So according to the American Dental Association, a lousy breath typically begins from the bacteria in your mouth. And I think I already knew this, but it says, "As you sleep, food particles collect between your teeth on the tongue and along the gum line. So your mouth breaks down the bacteria particles which leaves that foul smelling chemical in your mouth, and that's what produces the bad smell." There could be a few different things that could cause this. So that includes food, which... You like garlic, don't you? Like me? I love garlic.

Hannah Furst:
Yes, love garlic.

Joanna Fleming:
Onion and spices as well can do that too.

Hannah Furst:
Oh yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
So you might wake up after you've had garlic or onion or something really strong and notice that your breath is worse. Dry mouth as well, which is just a kind of condition which decreases saliva production. Neglecting oral care, so not brushing your teeth or flossing, which I mean surely you probably wouldn't be sleeping with someone that has horrific oral hygiene I wouldn't have thought. Tobacco which we've spoken about in a previous episode. What did Dr. Lucinda say, your vagin* smokes with you? So does your mouth, so that-

Hannah Furst:
Interesting.

Joanna Fleming:
Can lead to really a lousy morning breath. And medications as well can result in dry mouth, which as we've discussed previously can also lead to worse morning breath. But there are a few ways to... How would you avoid it? Like if you're in a situation where you have someone sleeping over Hannah, because I know you have a lot of friends sleep over.

Hannah Furst:
I haven't had a friend sleep over in a really long time, so I'm going to have to cast my mind back to another lifetime. Yeah, look to be honest, as you know because of my sleep problems, I'm not really asleep overer.

Joanna Fleming:
You're not, yeah. You usually kick them out.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, so look, they usually have to leave or I leave. I think that's why nothing ever sticks really, because it's-

Joanna Fleming:
Well Colgate have some tips on how to prevent morning breath and this is usually my strategy, is making sure I have a glass of water next to the bed. Because drinking water before you go to sleep or having it next to your bed as you wake up thirsty can help get rid of that bacteria in your mouth, so the morning breath isn't as bad.

Joanna Fleming:
As we discussed the strong smelling foods, avoid that if you're trying to avoid morning breath, and black tea or coffee before bed. And obviously not smoking. But other ways that you can deal with it is an antiseptic mouthwash. And then this one is really relevant to us, a tongue scraper.

Hannah Furst:
Oh yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
You know how we've got that... What's that brand with black chicken, have the tongue scraper?

Hannah Furst:
Black chicken, yes.

Joanna Fleming:
Heaps of people in our team swear by tongue scraping, and I've never done it but I'm going to start because I just feel like that there must be something amazing to it because they all rave about it. And then gum and mints, which is pretty... I mean, that's pretty standard isn't it? Having gum or mints in your bag? I always have mints with me.

Hannah Furst:
Where do you keep your gums and your mints?

Joanna Fleming:
In my bag.

Hannah Furst:
So I keep them in... This is going to sound really weird, I keep them in my cutlery drawer.

Joanna Fleming:
Why?

Hannah Furst:
I have no idea.

Joanna Fleming:
That doesn't seem very practical?

Hannah Furst:
I just... I keep them in my cutlery drawer.

Joanna Fleming:
I have some in my car too.

Hannah Furst:
Okay, well I keep the Listerine... Yeah, I've got them in my cutlery drawer because it's been so long that I wouldn't even need them beside my bed.

Joanna Fleming:
Yes.

Hannah Furst:
Oh look, I may as well keep my condoms in my cutlery drawer at this point. Honestly, yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
Oh yeah. Well we hope that if you have come across morning breath yourself or you're dealing with someone that has morning breath and doesn't have the etiquette to go and brush their teeth, maybe you can just put this episode on in the background and they'll hear it and they might take the hint. Because telling someone they have bad breath is actually really hard unless you know them super well and you know that it's not going to be super offensive. If you've been in a long relationship you can probably say to that person, "You stink." But if it's new you can't really say that because you probably never... They'd never forget it. So-

Hannah Furst:
I think that dental hygiene is probably... Because I remember we did that episode really early on with Dr. D.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah.

Hannah Furst:
And I remember him saying, "Dental hygiene is number one."

Joanna Fleming:
Just even to the overall health of your mouth.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
To prevent all sorts of things.

Hannah Furst:
I do feel like that's one thing I'm pretty obsessed about.

Joanna Fleming:
You know what comes up a lot though, things that people are attracted to is teeth. What is it about teeth? Like if someone has nice teeth I will just stare at their teeth. I say that to you all the time, don't I? I love your teeth.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah see, we're the opposite. I like teeth with a bit of character.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah see I like your teeth, they're perfect.

Hannah Furst:
I like... I mean I think all teeth are nice, but I do like teeth with a bit of character. And I think my mum for example, she didn't have braces and so she's got nice teeth but they've got a little bit of character, which I think looks really nice.

Joanna Fleming:
I think smile is a big thing for people when they're attracted to someone, so I guess that kind of relates back to this topic, but anyway, that's bad breath, morning breath I should say.

Hannah Furst:
And all you people that are having sex with morning breath at the moment, I am jealous actually.

Joanna Fleming:
We don't want to hear it.

Hannah Furst:
I never thought I'd be jealous and say, "I'm jealous of you all having sex with bad morning breath," but here we are.

Joanna Fleming:
Today's guest is joining us from Sinclair Dermatology in Melbourne. Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan is joining us, she's a dermatologist and she's here to talk to us about all things nails. Welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Oh thank you for having me.

Joanna Fleming:
I'm very excited to talk about nails because it's one of my favorite topics. We've spoken with a podiatrist before about both of our experiences with fungal toenails, which I think we're both on top of now Hannah. What are the most common nail concerns that you see in patients as a dermatologist?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
So I guess I would say the top concern would be fungal nail infections or colonization, where the nail can get a bit crumbly, it doesn't grow as well, it's got a color change to it. But another probably commonish presentation is probably just something called onycholysis where the nail just lifts off. We particularly see this in the fingernails, it can be from trauma, moisture getting trapped underneath the nail plate and the nails don't seal well down onto your nail bed, and that can give you a secondary candidal infection.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
I would also see this condition called lateral malalignment of the big toenails, where you get this horse shoe- like growth on your nail plate. And it's kind of mistaken as a fungal infection but it's really an abnormality of the nail matrix growing out wrongly or differently. And obviously we can't negate the commonness of psoriasis which is an inflammatory condition that can present with nail changes. And you would probably see little pits in your nails, you could see ridging, you could see lifting of the nail plate too, that onycholysis is kind of a sign sometimes that can be due to underlying psoriasis.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
As a nail specialist I would see changes around the nail bed or the skin around the nail presenting to us also, so there's a huge range of conditions and I guess this program is really interesting because the everyday person doesn't think that dermatologists are the nail specialists. We work together well with podiatrists but we are the most knowledgeable about nail conditions.

Hannah Furst:
Can you explain the nail matrix to us and how that contributes to nail health and grow?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
So the nail matrix is really where the nail grows from so it's not really the edge of the nail plate itself, it starts near the nail fold where your fingernail has the cuticle, it is right underneath there. That's your growth plate as we call it, which is the nail matrix. So you want to be quite gentle with looking after your nails because sometimes damage to the nail matrix can give you permanent changes to your nail plate.

Joanna Fleming:
Well for years one of my thumbs had what my friends called a gorilla nail, the whole nail was just horizontal ridges the whole way across. What can cause ridges to form on the nails, because I ended up finding out that it was probably like a nervous tick that I was picking at my cuticles without realizing and that was probably causing the ridges.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Well absolutely because you've probably picked away at your nail matrix where that cuticle area is, so you've micro-traumatized or done damage to the nail plate so the nail plate will not grow out straight. The technical term is a habit tic or Heller's nails dystrophy. So that is where you get this gorilla kind of changes or a fern shape change due to trauma. So picking... Sometimes injury, you drop something on your nails and you permanently damage the nail matrix.

Joanna Fleming:
Mm-hmm (affirmative) I thought for a long time it was from slamming my fingernail in a door but then it never grew out, it just kept growing that way. And I thought, "Why is this happening?" And then I stopped picking, I consciously stopped picking at it and it went away.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Yeah, because we do... We'd scratch or pick to sooth ourselves so it becomes that habit tic as you said.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, I imagine that's quite a common thing for people to pick away at the sides of their cuticles is it?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Mm-hmm (affirmative) especially when it's dry, I feel like there's a nidus to pick if your cuticles a bit dry or frayed, you've got something to hold onto and you pick and then you're trapped in that cycle. So good nail cream is very important.

Hannah Furst:
I don't know if you do this Jo, but I'm an anxious picker of the side of my nails. And I can do it until they bleed, it's really bad. I've got to stop do... I don't know how to stop doing it though, but I just keep picking at it until it's like, "Oh, what have I done?"

Joanna Fleming:
You know what really changed the game for me was using a cuticle oil so that they were really soft, there was nothing for me to pick at. I think when you get those little pieces of skin that start to lift you're so tempted to pick at them, but I don't get that now so I don't do it. That's my... That's been my game changer.

Hannah Furst:
If you're prone to constantly brittle weak peeling nails like I am, how can you treat those concerns?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Well I think the first thing to probably address would be how you're looking after your hands, good hand hygiene, which is using soap-free washes, a quick rinse under the tap, pat dry, if you've got brittle nails I wouldn't actually aggressively dry your hands too much. So a nice soft towel to wipe the edges and then moisturize either with a good urea-base moisturizer which traps moisture or a cuticle oil. There has been some research about biotin supplementations or certain vitamins like biotin, zinc, silica, do strengthen your nail plate, so that's something to look into. I sometimes feel nail health can be a marker of your internal wellbeing, so have a good gut health, sleep well, that general wellness would help with your nails growing stronger.

Joanna Fleming:
Can it also be a genetic thing, because a lot of people... I like to put my nail art on my Instagram stories and a lot of people say, "Is that your real nail? How do you get long nails?" And I think I've just always had relatively strong nails and my mum always did until she got older, and she started to notice that hers would crack and peel. Do they change with age as well, as you get older does the health of your nails change?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Yes, like any part of your body aging is not... It doesn't spare any part of your body. So like hormonal fluctuations, dietary changes, certain medications, but certainly aging is a factor with how strong your nail plate will be.

Joanna Fleming:
Mm-hmm (affirmative) and you did mention biotin which I take in the Beauty Chef Glow supplement, but do you recommend any other supplements? Does collagen work for nail strength, is there any evidence to suggest that supplements can impact nail health?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
It's a tricky thing with supplements because the party line is that supplements are probably of minimal effect if you've got a good, healthy diet, but most of us can benefit from some amount of supplementation. And certainly there is research out there with biotin, silica, zinc, vitamin D, that these can be short fixes or, or longterm fixes. With collagen we are getting more and more evidence of its beneficial effect to the skin, and if you think about it the nail is an extension of our skin so there should be no reason why it wouldn't be helpful.

Hannah Furst:
So I'm a big fan of nail strengtheners and Jo you mentioned before you love cuticle oils, I actually use the OPI nail MV and I personally swear by it and think it really works. What are your thoughts on nail strengtheners and cuticle oils?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
I'm a big fan of cuticle oils because they hydrate the skin around the nail and also the nail plate, but nail hardeners, provided you're not allergic to the components of it I think they do strengthen the bulk of your nail plate, where I might have issue as a dermatologist would be the use of too much acrylics or gel extensions, more so with the removal process, it can be quite traumatizing to the nail plate.

Hannah Furst:
Jo and I had a conversation the other week about nail fungal and we had read online, and it was probably good that we're speaking to a dermatologist about it, but I had had Shellac on my toes for so long I didn't even know there was fungus growing there. And I think I read online that a dermatologist had said keeping SNS or Shellac on for so long, you don't actually know what's going under the nail bed and that can actually... That's probably not a good thing.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
I completely agree with that, firstly for skin surveillance, nail surveillance, because we do get very rarely skin cancers of our nails. So unless you're actually looking at a clean nail that's not been polished on how are you going to pick up any brown streaks or red dots or changes that way. It's interesting because with Shellac and certain gel extensions the acetone that removes the product can actually weaken your nail and give you white-like changes, and it may not actually be a fungus, we actually think it might just be weakening of the nail plate due to the acetone.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
So I always say not everything that changes color on your nail is a fungus, so to get a proper diagnosis is key before you commit to longterm antifungals or before you ignore a skin cancer change, God forbid, you know what I mean?

Joanna Fleming:
Mm-hmm (affirmative) while we're on the topic of nail enhancements like gels and SNS, apart from the acetone side of it and the removal side, is there any negatives to using... To having nail services like that?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Well you know it looks beautiful, I can understand why you would want it, it's hard because I think with acrylic nails the removal bit is a bit tricky with how they drill it. But if you're allergic to acrylics or glues then you don't just get nail issues, you might get dermatitis or eczema of your eyelids, your chin, when you touch your face. Things like that. But for the average person that's not allergic to substances I see no real detriment.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
There has been this thing about whether the UV hardening bit where you actually put your nails to dry in an LED lamp or a UV lamp, whether that can cause skin cancer, we can safely say the risk is very low, but I still get all my patients and clients to just wear sunscreen in the back of your hands or fingerless glove when you're quickly drying your varnish or your gel polish under the lamp. That's the smart thing to do. But I would say overall it's pretty risk free.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, really good tip, I didn't think of that point, the UV lamp. That's a good point.

Hannah Furst:
Are there any other major no nos when it comes to nail care?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Ooh, yes. Pushing your cuticle down too much. I think that's a big no no. We've got this little moon-shaped picture or coloring at our proximal nail fold where that's considered beautiful. But as part of that you end up having to push the cuticle down too much, and that can give rise to trauma, inflammation, something called paronychia where you get a little swollen area around your nail plate. So I think pushing cuticle down, as much as it's a vanity thing it's unhealthy. There's a reason why your cuticle's there, to act as a barrier for all the pathogens that could come in.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Don't keep your nails too long because then you've got more of a lifting action going on if you think about it, your fulcrum's now moved, your center pivot point, so you've got more damage. You've got more... That condition called onycholysis where your nail plate lifts off so you get more water, moisture, bugs underneath, and look at your nails, look after your hands I think with the right moisturizer, not using too harsh chemicals, and giving your nails some polish-free or gel-free time just makes sense.

Joanna Fleming:
I've noticed a few people in isolation who may have been doing more cooking than they used to have experienced a few knife injuries with their nails, particularly someone that's also [inaudible 00:21:26].

Hannah Furst:
So that nail is still... I sliced into my nail halfway through and it just hasn't been the same. Yeah, no, I had a cooking injury. I just had one really quick question at the end because Jo and I have talked about nail fungus so much and we haven't actually asked a dermatologist about the... I've gone down to Chemist Warehouse and got that nail polish.

Joanna Fleming:
The Rejuvenail?

Hannah Furst:
The Rejuvenail, and it was going to take six to 12 months. Is it really that long a process to... I guess if you've got mild fungus underneath your toes?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Yes, I guess there are different types of fungus, how deep it is, whether it's superficial, but yeah, my usual spiel for anyone doing that topical option, I say, "This has to become your hobby, you're going to have to enjoy painting this on once or twice a day." And the reason why they do tell you it's six to 12 months, it takes that long for your nail to grow out. You would hope that with a more superficial infection you get there quicker, but do not give up, because you really want to treat it until that new bit of nail is completely fungus-free.

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah Hannah, I removed my toenail polish the other day, I think my fungus may have resurfaced.

Hannah Furst:
Oh no.

Joanna Fleming:
I'm going to have to get back on the Rejuvenail.

Hannah Furst:
The other tip that I read, I did a lot of research online trying to fix it and I probably should have just spoken to a dermatologist. And another thing that it said was cut the nail as far down as you can so that there's nowhere for the fungus to grow. Myth or fact?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
No I think it makes sense because you want to reduce the reservoir or fungal elements. So the less nail that's colonized the better, so cutting it flush with your skin makes sense. And you know it depends too. Sometimes you get... If you get a greenish yellowish coloration, a discoloration of your nail plate, it may not be fungus, it could be this bacteria called pseudomonas which you can read up on it. It gives you that greenish discoloration. And that one responds pretty well to good old fashioned dilute vinegar soaks. One part... Dash of vinegar, 10 parts water, you dunk your nails in a little tea cup or a basin for 10 to 15 minutes, and you do that for a month or two and that will kill that particular bacteria which tends to be a secondary colonizer, which gives you that manky green, yellow look. So that's a goodie I think.

Joanna Fleming:
Oh wow. Are there any other at-home remedies you can share?

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Ooh, I think they've tried to experiment with apple cider vinegar, it works with any kind of vinegar. The other thing of course is tea tree for fungal infections of the skin between the toes. You want to go super dilute, like really dilute, or maybe even not sometimes because tea tree allergy can be a real drama. Another tip with just preventing fungal colonization would be when you have a shower, make sure you dry between the toes. I put my hairdryer on a low setting, cold, so that just dries out that whole area because fungus loves moisture.

Joanna Fleming:
Wow, that's very extra, drying your toes with a hairdryer.I love that.

Joanna Fleming:
Well if anyone listening has any nail concerns and they want to go and see a dermatologist, you can see Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan at Sinclair Dermatology in Melbourne. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
Absolute pleasure. It was so much fun, who knew nails could be so much fun with two girls?

Joanna Fleming:
Exactly, it's so much fun.

Dr. Shyamalar Gunatheesan:
And stop picking, just stop picking anything.

Joanna Fleming:
Stop picking.

Hannah Furst:
I'll try. I'll try.

Joanna Fleming:
Great tip.

Joanna Fleming:
Products we didn't know we needed Hannah. You want to talk about Christmas already and we're only in October.

Hannah Furst:
So I just love limited edition, I'm like a real sucker for limited edition. And our limited edition holiday has landed on Adore Beauty and I'm as you know obsessed with fragrance, candles, I actually saw this meme and I thought this was quite relevant to this. This is someone's tweet. "I light so many candles and drink so much red wine I'm essentially three chants away from creating a seance at any time." So that's me at the moment with my candles, I'm obsessed with candles. And so I know this... You'll love this. It's the Glasshouse Tahaa fragrance, I think that's your favorite right?

Joanna Fleming:
I've got a few different favorites, Tahaa's probably in my top 10, but I've got quite a few Glasshouse favorites. Kyoto's right up there for me.

Hannah Furst:
But anyway, so yeah, you'll see all of the limited edition candles coming in on the site.

Joanna Fleming:
The Glasshouse ones go so bloody quickly as well. So if you love the night before Christmas one, that one always sells out way in advance so make sure you get onto it. I bought a jumbo one last year and I still haven't opened it because I haven't got through the last one so I need to start burning that one.

Hannah Furst:
That one's actually live, so they've got the bird night before Christmas in a 60 gram, but then there's also the Tahaa bauble in 30 grams and that's only $15.

Joanna Fleming:
That's such a good KK gift, isn't it?

Hannah Furst:
Such a good KK gift. But also the reason I wanted to also shout out is because I'm actually doing an Instagram live that will also be on our IGTV, our digital video on Instagram, and I'm doing my roundup of candles and fragrances. And so if you're looking for gifts for people in the coming months, which you probably will be, I think scent is going to be the thing that we're going to be buying everyone this Christmas, because people are at home and they need more candles, so-

Joanna Fleming:
Everyone needs a candle.

Hannah Furst:
So I wanted to shout out to that because I'd really like some engagement because-

Joanna Fleming:
Hannah doesn't want to be there talking to herself.

Hannah Furst:
I don't want to be talking to myself.

Joanna Fleming:
Make sure you join.

Hannah Furst:
Yeah. So check it out on the IGTV, you'll see my face and I'll be talking all about candles and scents and fragrances and fun stuff. So I'll see you there. Give it a like please.

Hannah Furst:
Oh by the way, talking about likes, we never actually spoke about the Social Dilemma. Did you watch it?

Joanna Fleming:
Yes I did. And I was underwhelmed, everyone was like, "It's so interesting." I'm like, "I've known Google was watching me for the last five years, what are you guys so surprised about?"

Hannah Furst:
Yeah, I'm like, "I don't really care."

Joanna Fleming:
Yeah, I'm like-

Hannah Furst:
Like Google knows I'm lonely, I get it. They know I'm lonely.

Joanna Fleming:
But on the topic of them following you, sometimes that can actually be really beneficial. As I said in a couple of episodes ago, I was listening to The Lighthouse podcast and they use Google to track all of his movements so that they could work out when he was using his phone. They could see when he was using his maps, all of that stuff is so interesting. So sometimes it can be used for good, sometimes it's just used to target you with really random ads.

Hannah Furst:
Your Wish ads.

Joanna Fleming:
Like my Wish ads, which are definitely not based on my searches I can tell you that much.

Hannah Furst:
I was wondering, every time you show your Wish ads I'm like, "What are you searching for Jo?"

Joanna Fleming:
It's definitely... Wish does not base their ads on targeting at all. I swear I'm not searching three-foot dild*s, I promise.

Joanna Fleming:
So my product I didn't know I needed today is a bargain product because I'm always talking about bougie stuff. So I thought I would drop in a bargain product which I'm really loving. So quite a few weeks ago, we did a master class with Karla Dyson and L'Oreal Paris and we got this set of products to use in the masterclass. And one of those products was the Lash Paradise Mascara by L'Oreal and I had never used this mascara before, I'd seen it on the site and I'd seen other people use it in videos and rave about it, but when I actually opened it and I saw the brush, I was like, "This is the exact kind of mascara that I go for." So the brush is really fluffy and it reminds me of a past mascara I've used.

Joanna Fleming:
And I can't remember if it's the Dior one, but it is a really fluffy brush and it gives a lot of volume and length to the lashes. And I find it keeps them lifted all day which I really struggle with, my lashes are really fine and I find if I wear something too heavy then they go really flat and they get to the point where they almost cover over my eyes because they fall so much. So if you struggle with that I would definitely get a lash curler, I'm using the MODELROCK one at the moment which I bought recently, because I needed to replace my old 15 year old one. So I bought that lash curler, I tried this new mascara, I was like, "Oh, match made in heaven." And it's only 24,95. So I just feel like mascara... As we said before, don't you reckon mascara's one of those things that you can get a bit cheaper because you need to throw it out so often?

Hannah Furst:
Yeah.

Joanna Fleming:
You don't want to buy... I love the Dior mascara but I didn't want to keep buying that because it's over $50, and I don't want to have to throw that out every three or four months. So using a bargain mascara I think is definitely a good option if you can find a good one, there's heaps of good ones. Maybelline have a few good ones, L'Oreal Paris have a few good ones. Any other brands you can think of that have a really good mascara?

Hannah Furst:
Well the only thing I will say on the mascara side of things is that if I am going out and going to have a sweaty night I do need that [inaudible 00:30:37] mascara from Estee Lauder. So I do like to invest. So it just depends I think, but I think that L'Oreal Paris Paradise Mascara is amazing.

Joanna Fleming:
Yep, if you've got oily skin or you're a little bit sweatier and you find that you have issues with transfer of mascaras then I would suggest maybe investing a little bit more in a mascara, but if you generally don't have any issues with panda eyes or anything like that, then I think this would probably be a really good option. So that's my PWD KWN. And that's us done for another week I think Hannah. I'll see you next week.

Hannah Furst:
We'll see you next week. Thanks everyone for joining us today.

Joanna Fleming:
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